Puzzle Description Suppressed:Click below to view spoilers

#1: Gator (Gator) on Feb 5, 2010 [HINT]

Lots of edge logic for this one. Please let me know if you need a hint for some parts of it.

Very cute. I did use edge logic but I had to use the name of the puzzle to figure out how to finish.

The hardest part I found is about 60% through the puzzle. Think about the possible places that the 5 clue can go in column 3. You will need to use edge logic twice to know that it cannot go in a particular place.

Found to be logically solvable by Gator.

I totally agree with Black cat!

If there has never previously been released a typical gator-puzzle, this has to be the one. Great fun!

I did edge logic in several places, but it only got me so far. I got stuck before I was to the 60% mark that you gave the hint for above. I finally resorted to visual logic to make a guess to get me going again. I really, really, don't like to ever resort to guessing if it's not necessary, but I just couldn't figure out the complex edge logic on this one.

My solution:
Easy edge logic on the bottom row will let you completely place the 12 clue. Line logic.

Use edge logic on row 1 to make R1C1 a dot.

Edge logic on column 1 will make R2C1 - R6C1 and R15C1 - R18C1 dots. Line logic.

Edge logic on row 1 will make R1C3 - R1C10 and R1C18 - R1C20 dots. Line logic.

Now the edge logic on column 20 is slightly harder as you cannot dot any cells (except R18C20), but you can determine the range that the 7 clue will be valid in. Starting from the top of column 20, the first place the 7 clue could start is R4C20 - R10C20, but this would make column 19 invalid. As you keep moving down the column you will continue to make column 19 invalid until you reach R10C20 - R16C20. This is the top of the range. As mentioned earlier, easy edge logic will get you a dot in R18C20. So the 7 clue can go somewhere between rows 10 - 17. This gives you 6 blacks you can fill in on column 20. A lot more line logic.

You can now use edge logic on column 3 to see that R18C3 will be a dot because placing the 5 clue in R14C3 - R18C3 will make column 4 invalid.

Now focus on where you have left to put the 5 clue in column 3. There are only 3 places (rows 6-10, 7-11, or 13-17). Testing the top 2 places out, both of these will make column 4 invalid. The only place left is 13-17. Line logic will finish this one out.

Amazing puzzle.

my brain has been taxed but I did it without guessing! Yeah. that was tough.
Nice image. :)

Thanks all.

Comment Suppressed:Click below to view spoilers

Another brilliant sample of a Gator puzzle.

I'm not sure when I'll next get around to programming on webpbn, but one of my ambitions is to build a author-supplied hint facility into the site.

The current L-key hint thing just does simple line solving (it's basically the helper in disguise). The improved hinting thing would do that first. But if it couldn't find a hint, it would check the database for a hint from the author. If a certain set of pixels was already set, and no cells in another set of cells was set, then it would display a hunk of text entered by the puzzle designer (or maybe from a limited number of other users).

Puzzle authors and people authorized to enter hints would get an extra button on their puzzle solving screen. "Enter Hint" or something. You run the helper until it stalled. At a stall point you hit the "Enter Hint" button. You enter your hint text, and mark which cells the hint will let you solve. The "must be set" set for the hint is everything that was already set before you entered the hint. The "must not be set" set is the set of cells the hint lets you set.

So this would let you get hints like the ones Gator entered above in context, seeing just the one that applies to the state the puzzle is in.

Liz - if you want to try more edge logic puzzles, about half of mine require it. :)

Jan - That sounds like a very cool feature to implement. It seems like it would best be used when there would only be one route that could be taken through a puzzle. Some of the hints I gave above could have been done in a different order. So to cover all paths, the designers would have to consider the various ways that a puzzle could be tackled. Or just focus on what (I believe I did above) would be the path of least resistance to get to a solution.

It would also be cool if puzzle hints could be "submitted" in some fashion by the solvers. Or I guess the puzzle author could just look at the comments to figure out a hint that could be added.

I think that if you supply hints for all the places the helper gets stuck when the helper solves the puzzle, then you should have a enough hits so that every possible situation is covered.

Except the case where the solver has made a mistake. Then hinter should probably check if the partial solution is correct, and warn the solver if they have gone astray, perhaps offering to undo to the point where things went wrong.

I think if everyone can offer hints you'll get some bad hints. These could be more annoying than no hint.

Yeah, that sounds pretty complicated and could be frustrating.

The current system works for me - I solve until I get stuck, then check for hints. If there's no hints, I can go back and try some more, or wait until someone else offers a hint. How a hint is described could vary from one commenter to another. I might understand Adam's explanation of the required edge logic better than Gator's explanation.

Lots of fun to solve, and more levels of edge logic for me than usual. (Teresa - it cracks me up that you call guessing "visual logic"! Nice spin!) Very tough - very fun. Thanks Gator!

Thanks, DW. I think Jan was the first one to call it that. He said something like "no visual logic is allowed" for a puzzle to be technically considered as solvable by logic alone. Some puzzle creators who solve their own puzzles first might use visual logic and solve it with ease (having the final image already in mind), then wonder why everyone else (who is using puzzle logic only) might be having such a difficult time. I'm a purist and try to only use puzzle logic, unless I get really stumped, like I did with this one. :-)

A slow start (and a slower middle) with a satisfying finish.

ok Gator...I do random puzzles and when your puzzles come up, a little part of me groans (because I know I'm in for a full test of the mental skills) but the rest is so excited because you make the best puzzles! Pretty sure you are one of the main reasons my eyes feel like they are crossed by the end of the day. Your puzzles are such a challenge and such a reward! Thanks!

Thanks DWeidig, Joe, and Amanda!

excellent solve with a very nice image to boot

cute

Sheer brilliance Gator, and I think I am pretty brilliant for solving this one with out hints or guessing, haha :)

Thanks!

logically solved. thanks

This was a fun one to solve. Such a simple but effective image

Hard to start and fun to solve. Very cute.

Thanks!

More of a "peep", really. ;)

Comment Suppressed:Click below to view spoilers

Comment Suppressed:Click below to view spoilers

Thanks JoDeen!

Show: Spoilers

Goto next topic

You must register and log in to be able to participate in this discussion.