#1: Ron Jacobson (shmily999) on Aug 23, 2010

Is it necessarily a bad thing that some guessing is involved? I would suppose that ideally no guessing would be involved, right? I'm still new at creating puzzles and want to know how the need for a guess is looked upon. Thanks.

The answer will probably vary depending on who answers. I can only voice my opinion.

I only solve puzzles with logic. If a puzzle cannot be solved with logic, then it requires guessing to finish the picture. Honestly, I do not like these kind of "puzzles". For me, the beauty of a puzzles lies in how it is solved. The resulting image is of less importance to me.

I do not even attempt to "solve" multiple solution puzzles as these cannot be solved logically. All multiple solution puzzles inherently require guessing.

My opinion: Lots of guessing required? Forget it, I won't even bother. Some guessing required? It depends. There are three situations, and each will usually result in three different reactions from me:

1) The newbie who doesn't know any better. Sigh. I will be forgiving and understanding and give it a try, and maybe make a few suggestions. Like, "Read Jan's article of suggestions linked on the puzzle creation page." And "Please edit your puzzle as needed BEFORE you hit the publish button."

2) The compulsive creator who lacks artistic talent but just wants to spew out puzzles. This type ignores constructive criticism, doesn't care about what pleases the solvers, and thinks they don't need to read Jan's suggestions. They have no clue as to what makes a good puzzle. Thoughtless, impulsive, no common sense, this type probably was exposed to alcohol in the womb and I try to be understanding, but also get very frustrated with them.

3) The careful creator with at least a little artistic talent who strives to give us a fun solving experience with a decent image at the end. Here's an example: Joe's puzzle #8099 "Hang the Expense" (I really like this one)
http://webpbn.com/index.cgi?id=8099

I will try to solve some puzzles, especially smaller ones, that are marked "some guessing" because often those seem to have been marked that way by people who don't use other than line logic to solve. I get stuck on some of those, but often there is a logical solution.

A new puzzle marked "some guessing required" I'll at least attempt; as Liz mentioned, often these are marked this way when they really just require some advanced logic. In the cases where the puzzle is marked "some guessing" but I can solve it logically, I'll generally post a hint in the comments about what I did if no one else has already covered that information. If I cannot solve the puzzle logically, and there's no hint about some logic that I missed, sometimes if the guess is obvious enough based on the image I will proceed, but often I will leave the puzzle unfinished.

I check the "no guessing" filter when I do a search.

a lot of the puzzles marked as guessing required actually can be solved with logic

i hope gator can get to all of the older puzzles and make the official ruling on the ones that can actually be solved with logic

I'm getting there. I have about 25 in my saved pile that I have not been able to solve yet.

Hey Gator, please share this list, I love a challenge! :D

Hey Kadou - here is a partial list:

1694, 2415, 2882, 3541, 3673 (very large), 3709, 4089, 4610, 4758, 4868, 4905, 5264, 5374, 5688, 7578, 7603, 7813, 7962, 8599, 8861, 9124, 9517, 9566, 10047, 10104, 10206, 10405, 10419, 10422, 10453

I have some more, but this should last you at least a week. :)

Also, please let me know in this thread if you are able to logically solve these puzzles as I do not regularly check the puzzle comments in my saved list. Thanks.

Kadou, many of my earier puzzles were marked as may require guessing, but feel free to try to solve them. Some of them are probably on Gator's list, but I didn't check for sure.

Adam - Some of the ones I had listed are yours, but not a lot. I still think it is worth the effort to try to find a way to logical solve your earlier puzzles (the ones marked with a '?' that is). I believe I have found at least one if not more that were logically solvable.

Kadou - I forgot to mention that Symmetry is regarded as guessing on this site and is not valid for a logically solvable puzzle.

Puzzle #4610 Solves with Edge Logic and normal logic.
One down! :) I with tackle black and white puzzles first since I am not too comfortable with color puzzles yet.

Kadou - could you post a detailed explanation of the "first 4 columns" in the puzzle thread? In this thread, I would just like to know if you were able to solve one of these (or another '?' puzzle). Thanks.

#4610 and now #10422 explained in their respective puzzle comments.

#10419 tested.

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