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#1: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Aug 1, 2017 [SPOILER]

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Too much guessing. I really think a slightly larger puzzle would have made a better and more doable image,
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While I personally find symmetry to make a puzzle a bit less interesting to solve because it takes away from the joy of conquering the logic, we as humans have the brain capacity to recognize such things as symmetry in a puzzle. Since it is in our arsenal of mental capabilities, why not use it? Therefore, it is valid as moderate lookahead. In short, we can, so why not?

I wish I knew where Jan's explanation is, but if I remember right it has to do with the fact that just because clues are symmetrical doesn't mean that it's solvable...puzzles with multiple solutions for instance. I think that's why, from a logic point of view, it isn't a reliable technique.

That being said, I'm still searching for a path on this one.

If someone can show me a puzzle where the clues are exactly symmetrical and the solution is not symmetrical I will believe that symmetry is invalid. Until then I maintain that it is a perfectly logical solving strategy.

Jan discussed symmetry in his FAQ section. Click on FAQ then on Advanced Puzzle Solving Techniques and scroll down a tad to find one of his discussions. I remember seeing others but I don't remember where.

I can easily show you a puzzle with symmetrical clues that doesn't have a symmetrical solution...it just won't have a unique solution and therefore not solvable by definition, which is what I said.

No, David. If the clues are symmetrical the solution is symmetrical. It may be corner to corner symmetry, in which case it has multiple solutions, but it is symmetrical. And it can be argued that if there are multiple solutions it's not a valid puzzle, though I admit, there are invalid puzzles on this site.

Everybody is free to use whatever techniques they want, all I'm saying is that the guidelines for ratings on this site should follow the guidelines for what constitutes the various levels of logic. Otherwise, it's too subjective and therefore meaningless.

And for the record, I can make a puzzle with zero symmetry about any axis...horizontal, vertical, diagonal, etc...AND without rotational symmetry, that is clue-symmetric (and multiple solutions).

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Found to require some guessing by gator.

I'll add a "requires symmetry to solve" designation to my list of upgrades to the site. Someday I'll have a chunk of time to work on those!

Thanks Valerie. I think we should only use that designation for puzzles that have a unique solution though. If the puzzle is a multiple solutions puzzle, then they would continue to be marked as guessing.

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