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Comments on Puzzle #24677: Awww, a tough one.
By Tom O'Connell (sensei69)

peek at solution       solve puzzle
  quality:   difficulty:   solvability: deep lookahead  

Puzzle Description Suppressed:Click below to view spoilers

#1: Tom O'Connell (sensei69) on Jun 5, 2014 [HINT]

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#2: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Jun 5, 2014
?
#3: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 5, 2014 [HINT]
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#4: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 5, 2014
Fun solve, Tom.
#5: whatever (nuts) on Jun 5, 2014
yeah, the 5 has to go up top, but you can't tell that in 2 moves ahead or less. hate to say it, but if that's your only way of solving this, it's "deep-lookahead". no guessing.

it's plenty easy enough to "see" the correct solution, but I'm not finding a moderate-lookahead way to get there. I'm not saying that there isn't one, just that I'm not seeing it.
#6: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 5, 2014
Can't recreate it, but the 5 down creates conflicts with the 3rd row over to the left (i believe). I didn't start charting until much too late. Joe will come along and clean it up.
#7: whatever (nuts) on Jun 5, 2014
it makes a contradiction with the 3 in c16 if you were to put the 5 on the bottom. (3rd column to the right from the 5). Agreed. I didn't dispute that. but it's more than 2 steps look-ahead.
#8: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 5, 2014 [HINT]
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#9: Joe (infrapinklizzard) on Jun 5, 2014 [HINT]
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#10: Web Paint-By-Number Robot (webpbn) on Jun 5, 2014
Found to be solvable with deep lookahead by infrapinklizzard.
#11: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 5, 2014
Whatever wins, however I think you can logically place the 5. I disagree.
#12: Joe (infrapinklizzard) on Jun 5, 2014
Please give your specific steps.
#13: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 6, 2014 [HINT]
Comment Suppressed:Click below to view hints
#14: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 6, 2014 [HINT]
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#15: Tom O'Connell (sensei69) on Jun 6, 2014
well, at least, I kept y'all busy :D
#16: whatever (nuts) on Jun 6, 2014
it was a fun solve, Tom! and a fun challenge to keep looking for alternate ways of solving :)

didn't realize it was a competition sgusa ;)...you can logically place the 5, just with 3 steps instead of 2. anyway, you've got your Old Style? you said you'd argue "whatever" as long as you had some....I'm leaving work and will stop for some Bud on the way home ;) (like my punnyness?)
#17: Tom O'Connell (sensei69) on Jun 6, 2014
lol thx whatever
#18: whatever (nuts) on Jun 6, 2014
I KNOW Tom O'Connell knows that I sometimes solve under an alt id, but does Tom King have any clue as to who I am? a challenging puzz got published today. #24686. check it out, and we can argue that one next. really, it's a tough solve and both Toms will like it. let's see what you got! jump in there too, Joe. I have a feeling this one will get a "?"...at any rate, it's infrapink-worthy.
#19: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Jun 6, 2014
Now I remember. It's ol' what's his name.
#20: whatever (nuts) on Jun 6, 2014
hahaha! N, I deleted fb a while ago also. your niece have a name? and is she still in the STL area? or just Mizzou. a couple of the younguns at work graduated MU this past May...
#21: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Jun 6, 2014
My niece and her daughter are both alumni. My niece worked her way up working for McGraw Hill. Not sure doing what.
#22: Tom O'Connell (sensei69) on Jun 7, 2014
did that puzzle, whatever, it is a nice solve :)
#23: Joe (infrapinklizzard) on Jun 7, 2014 [HINT]
Comment Suppressed:Click below to view hints
#24: Joe (infrapinklizzard) on Jun 7, 2014
Separately, smile logic can be looked at as a special case of edge logic.

Look at example 10 on http://webpbn.com/index.cgi?page=faq.html

Now do edge logic on the 8:
If it were to go into c1, then it would invalidate r1 (there would not be enough room for both 1s).
Therefore, it cannot go in c1 and then it solves with line logic.

Smile logic is basically recognising those situations where this sort of forcing happens. Simple smiles like examples 8 and 10 can be solved with edge logic. However, abstracting the concept allows us to apply it to a more dreadful situation like example 9.
#25: Tom King (sgusa) on Jun 7, 2014
Joe: Regarding "smile logic," I used it recently in a couple of puzzles and solved a couple using it. It is guessing. Albeit educated guessing. I accept it for what it is. If EL will solve it, I won't even attempt smile. Most of my uncompleted puzzles use smile logic, and I have worked through most of the 20x20. I'll revisit the puzzle when I have some time and truly notate it. Your third statement assumes that I was off by one. I may have been. However, I doubt three times. I'll recheck. Thanks for your time. Kurt agrees with you.

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