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#1: Gitte Olesen (granny40) on Oct 30, 2007

Funny idea :o)

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I didn't have to guess at all. hmmmmm

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Very clever interpretation pup! Well done.
Congratulations on posting your first puzzle at Webpbn. What name do you prefer to go by?
Thank you for sharing your talent and for the fun puzzle. I look forward to more of your work. ^>^ (Gypso)

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Sorry M2, your argument isn't moving me. It sounds like you are figuring all the permutations and systematically (a form of logic) eliminating all those that don't fit. That is not a progressive logic. There are certain "rules" that any solution finding carries. For example, say you wish to unscramble a word. In the English language, at least, vowels are virtually always interspersed within the consonants. It would be one way to systematically go through every possible combination of letters, but knowing how the language operates, it is logical to eliminate those combinations that have all the vowels on one side of the letter cluster and all the consonants on the other. To expect to form a word from those eliminated in this way is illogical, although undoubtedly examples of such do exist. To get to those last examples, one either elimates all the logical, or vowel-interspersed, permutations that do not form words, OR one proceeds with all the possible combinations of letters, resulting in a much greater number of combinations to sort through. Maybe you do not consider that guessing, but it isn't efficient. The same applies here if you are remembering all the combos and elimating individual solutions rather than groups of patterns.

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This was why I brought this up on the forum. To me, if you have to work a couple of steps ahead, it IS guessing. I can see how others argue that it is not, though. Some of Naneki's face puzzles required LOTS of looking ahead, and still some people were arguing that it wasn't guessing-- because there was only one solution if you were willing to save and look far enough ahead. Personally, I find that frustrating, not enjoyable, but I recognize that some people disagree. Robert mentioned that he looks forward to puzzles with ? next to them and sees them as a particular challenge.

I don't think we will see the types of puzzles you are talking about, Mercy, where "true guessing is the only way to solve it" anymore, since Jan has now made it impossible to publish a puzzle without a unique solution.

I guess we will have to leave it up to our Great One to decide whether the puzzle gets the ? or not!

By the way, very cool image, pup. I hope you publish some more and aren't scared away by our debate!

Mannnn, I really didn't want a ? puzzle, because I filter those out when I'm looking through the puzzles I want to do. I didn't really think there was any guessing involved... the most one would have to look ahead is about 3 or 4 steps using edge logic, even without assuming symmetry (I didn't assume when checking it for solvability), but oh well. Next time I will just try to make an easier puzzle.

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Jan I think that I've been saying "line logic" when I meant your definition of "edge logic". This is when I try to place a larger number in one column or row dependent on how it rightfully fits with surrounding clues. You described it better.
If this is the prevailing definition I will have to remember to call it by its proper name so as not to confuse anyone with my comments. I don't guarantee anything though...

I'm not really sure there is any official terminology. I've been inventing my own as I go along.

I don't know official from unofficial pbn terminology either Jan. It is very helpful though when someone (in this case you) describes their terminology. It's a much more effective way to communicate than saying, "That thingy over there by the stuff". Which is to say, the way I might describe it. ;-)
Your inventions so far are great Jan (webpbn for one). I quite enjoy the way your brain works.

Ditto the first paragraph of #11.

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