#1: Teresa K (fasstar) on Aug 15, 2019

I just solved two puzzles by Angela (fenchurch802). She has only solved a handful of puzzles and has created puzzles that seem to be of professional quality, perhaps from a published copyrighted book? Sometimes solvers recognize them.

https://webpbn.com/32713 Justic League Heroine
https://webpbn.com/32715 Fair Play

I am aware of what Jan's policy was. Valerie, what is your policy on this?

Maybe she's just talented. My first puzzles were good jusat like her.

Oops, I just found this question now, half a year after it was entered. Teresa, what was Jan's policy on this? I don't think he would have been okay with copyrighted material being re-entered here without permission, so probably he would have deleted it?

This is what he says on the puzzle editor page:
Please do not enter any puzzles taken from any copyrighted source, such as books, magazines, or other web sites. Enter only your own original designs.
The copyrights to all puzzles on this site are retained by the people who entered them. Please do not re-publish them elsewhere without permission from the author.

I don't think he deleted them as there are still copied puzzles on the site that go back several years.

Thanks. Hm. My understanding is that I'm legally responsible for deleting any copyrighted puzzles that are copied here by anybody other than their copyright-holder. So if a copied puzzle came to my attention, I would unhappily need to delete it.

First off, I agree that copywriten puzzles should be deleted. It's unfair to those of us who have taken the time an effort to create a puzzle to have others just copying from known sources, let alone the legal ramifications.

In this specific instance, I don't think that has been proven yet. If I read T correctly, she is suggesting that the puzzle quality is too good for someone who seems to be so new at puzzling so she's asking if any of the regulars recognize the puzzles from other sites. When I saw this post, or rather S's response, I tried one of the puzzles and it is quite well crafted. However, I'm not as suspicious.

A caveat, there are some well done puzzles on this site as well and I wouldn't put it above other sites or publishers to "borrow" from here as well. I think it would be important to check the publish date of both puzzles before a determination was made.

I believe there was also discussion at one time about how much alteration would make a puzzle unique rather than copied. Since the colors on this site are limited it's not enough to just change the color scheme.

It'd be interesting to hear if someone recognizes these from a published source. Personally, this site is my only activity in PBN so I wouldn't be able to recognize a copied puzzle if it bit me.

We had someone a couple of years ago that published a lot of puzzles that she called her own. The copies were easily distinguished from her own puzzles which were very primitive. The original work was often easy to find by just asking Google for those images in pixels. I looked into her copies as I was concerned if this site in some way could be held responsible for allowing them to be published. I did not find a definite answer. But here is a copy of what I wrote about it. The first puzzle I mentioned is not longer there by the others are.

. It seems Donna has been publishing puzzles she has gotten from other sources as her own. I first discovered a copy of an image that can be seen on the home page of Conceptis Puzzles which I pointed out in a comment on that puzzle. Unfortunately that did not stop her from copying other people’s ideas. Here are a just a few examples:
29262 Sylvester
https://www.google.com/search?q=pixel+image+of+sylvester+the+cat&biw=1360&bih=634&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj1yY7rypPRAhUoq1QKHbruA-8QsAQIGQ#imgrc=xnpxBG8_M43qzM%3A

28812 - This is one of her robot puzzles. Hers is a mirror image with some slight changes.
https://www.google.com/search?q=r2d2+in+pixels&espv=2&biw=1360&bih=634&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQzNaq4OXRAhXFgVQKHW8IB-sQ_AUIBigB#imgrc=TpffBYIwb5N9MM%3A
28774 – This is an image of the Joker from Batman, again with some slight changes. She commented, “Thank you both. I think characters are my strength.”
https://www.google.com/search?q=joker+from+batman+in+pixels&espv=2&biw=1360&bih=634&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjFr8f89uXRAhXph1QKHYI-CJkQsAQIHA
291663 - This is the deer she posted just before Christmas. She added a blue hash mark background to make it solvable. Her response to one compliment was “Thanks, I am so excited this puzzle has a quality of 5!!!! I feel like I am in the big league now.”
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/32/cd/db/32cddb4d164b814572fdf7772a7588be.jpg
29190 – This is her bird in a cage. She made the bird red and added a green hash mark to make it solvable.
https://www.brik.co/blogs/pixel-art/caged-bird-pixel-art

It makes me very sad that someone feels they have to copy other people’s ideas and I have no idea what her motivation is in doing this, but it bothered me that people were unknowingly making nice comments on puzzles that were not hers and I thought they should know.

It might not have mattered so much if she had acknowledged the source and gave them full credit and said something to the effect that she was sharing something she liked with us, but you could see from her comments that she wanted us to think she was the creator.

We used to have a few people who could identify the copies and cite the source (like a published magazine) when they were flagged here like this. If someone could report the source of the copy, Jan would remove it. The two I mentioned above were followed by a third, then she disappeared.

Circling back to this again: My understanding is that if I am told about a copyright violation on the site (or any other posting that breaks the law) then I am responsible for removing it. I don't know how different from the original a copied puzzle needs to be in order to count as a new puzzle and not a copy.

Puzzle 29262 (Sylvester) seems to be gone. I did not delete it.

Puzzle 28812 (R2-D2) was an exact copy of an image online, so I've deleted it.

Puzzle 28774 (Joker from Batman) was very similar to an online image, but had significant changes, so I left it posted.

Puzzle 29163 (Deer) is an exact replica of a deer that is posted online, but the added background and text make it different from the original -- but the deer itself is exactly identical to the online deer. So I am not sure whether it counts as a copyright violation.

Puzzle 29190 (Caged Bird) - ditto.


Does that seem reasonable? I could convinced to delete the other ones too, because they aren't entirely original.

Some have posted exact copies of art work from other sources with the additions of some color to make them more solvable on our site. If the original exists in the copy despite the additions, it should probably be deleted. As the saying goes: Better safe than sorry.

Very reasonable, Valerie.

Someone recently e-mailed me to say that Jedi_Mike's designs are often copied from online pixel art sites. For example his Twilight Zone series matches the perler bead art in this video:
https://youtu.be/iSjbntciy20?feature=shared&t=192

Jedi_Mike has almost 1000 puzzles online, and I have not found any way to reach him. Maybe he is the creator of that perler art -- I do not know, but it is possible!

Since it seems very likely that there are copyright violations in there, and since 1000 puzzles is a lot of puzzles to check, I am sadly going to unpublish all of Jedi Mike's puzzles.

Mike, if you are reading this, please e-mail me or join the discussion here! I would like to hear what you have to say about this.

Valerie
Speaking of copies I see that there is a puzzle posted today by Donna McFarland which is most likely a copy:

#28334: Who am I? 12 29x27 4 Donna McFarland (jade8114) Jul 9, 2016

Donna made a large number of copies. Copies which she tried to pass off as her own. She would say things like she thought this was one of her better efforts. When I pointed out some of the copies she got very angry and left the site for a while but did not delete any of her copies. One of her copies was from the home page of Conceptis, the jumping horse.

It is pretty easy to distinguish the copies becuse her style was very primitive.

Thanks for letting me know.

I could use some guidance from the community about how to handle these things.

Question 1: I would rather not name people's names -- but also eventually someone is going to ask what happened to so-and-so's puzzles, or they will ask why there are suddenly 1,000 fewer puzzles on the site, and it's going to come up.

Question 2: Any advice about a reasonable way to check hundreds of puzzles for copyright violations? Donna's three accounts have 277 puzzles.

I think it might make sense to decide what to do on a case-by-case basis, rather than having a blanket policy for everybody. Hopefully copyright violations will stay rare.

Hm. Puzzle 28334 is a copy of this image:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/1060949624686253702/
with two pixels added to the eye to make it solvable, and a colored bed(?) added below. As always, I am not sure how much an image needs to be changed in order to not be a copyright violation, but this feels to me like it goes beyond fair use. The pinterest image doesn't seem to have a copyright notice or any discussion about whether it is public domain.

There was a HUGE kerfuffle several years ago. User kadou noticed that Tom O'Connell had posted previously-published material. The P word was tossed around. (Some of us are artists, and very sensitive about plagiarism). Tom made it personal, things got nasty, and kadou just left. He deleted hundreds of his own puzzles, leaving only the ones that were entered into the weekly competition.

It's a shame, because I really enjoyed kadou's presence in here, even if he was awfully secretive about his identity. (I'm assuming his gender as well.)

I'd heard people mention a past problem that involved Kadou, but not any of the details. Thanks for filling me in. It's a shame that it's Kadou who was whistleblowing and yet he or she is the one who left.

In respect to #15, my guidance would be this:

I'm always amazed at how "entitled" some net users feel. Becuase one asks a question does not mean they are required to be answered. I experienced something like that on this very site by another user who tried to engage me in a debate and became angry when they didn't receive a response.

If someone has the sort of questions listed, you aren't required to answer. It's your site. The number of puzzles can go up and down, puzzles can be added or deleted, all at your descretion and you're not obligated to explain it to anyone.

When a puzzle maker goes to the Create Puzzles page, the very first sentence from Jan is: Please do not enter any puzzles taken from any copyrighted source, such as books, magazines, or other web sites. Enter only your own original designs.

Even though someone has copied a puzzle and changed parts to make it solvable on this site, it's still not an original and Jan clearly asks that we keep our designs original.

Replying to Norma's #20: That is a good point. Jan's text is very clear that people should not re-use designs that they did not create. So if a piece of Snoopy pixel art -- made by somebody else -- is copied, with a couple of pixels slightly changed, and then another section underneath it is added, that would still not be okay, because the original Snoopy art was copied.

Replying to Byrdie's #19: I feel strongly that openness and clear communication make a community stronger.

I don't disagree, Valerie. There is, to me, however, a difference in openness and clarity in communication and the feeling that some have of being compelled to speak/answer.

Not trying to unearth the proverbial rabbit hole, just irritated by those who encroach their sense of entitlement upon me.

Normally, if the puzzler credits the artist (or source), it's fine. I know that I've reworked a few other puzzles to make them solvable, but I credit the artist and include the original puzzle number, so people can refer back.

Goto next topic

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