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Comments on Puzzle #29399: To copy.....
By Norma Dee (norm0908)

peek at solution       solve puzzle
  quality:   difficulty:   solvability: line & color logic only  

Puzzle Description Suppressed:Click below to view spoilers

#1: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 10, 2017

Having found where Charlie Davenport (littledaddyk) got his puzzles (see comment in his puzzle 29394), I thought it only fair to point out another puzzle maker who has been less than honest with us. It seems Donna has been publishing puzzles she has gotten from other sources as her own. I first discovered a copy of an image that can be seen on the home page of Conceptis Puzzles which I pointed out in a comment on that puzzle. Unfortunately that did not stop her from copying other people’s ideas. Here are a just a few examples:
29262 Sylvester

28812 - This is one of her robot puzzles. Hers is a mirror image with some slight changes.

28774 – This is an image of the Joker from Batman, again with some slight changes. She commented, “Thank you both. I think characters are my strength.”

291663 - This is the deer she posted just before Christmas. She added a blue hash mark background to make it solvable. Her response to one compliment was “Thanks, I am so excited this puzzle has a quality of 5!!!! I feel like I am in the big league now.”

29190 – This is her bird in a cage. She made the bird red and added a green hash mark to make it solvable.

It makes me very sad that someone feels they have to copy other people’s ideas and I have no idea what her motivation is in doing this, but it bothered me that people were unknowingly making nice comments on puzzles that were not hers and I thought they should know.
#2: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 10, 2017
#3: travis miller (bigblue) on Feb 11, 2017
wow, isn't there a comment from Jan about this
i like your puzzle norma :)
#4: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 11, 2017
Thank you, Travis.

His first sentence on the create page is :

Please do not enter any puzzles taken from any copyrighted source, such as books, magazines, or other web sites. Enter only your own original designs.

I think he discussed copying other people's work elsewhere, but I don't know exactly where.
#5: Kurt Kowalczyk (bahabro) on Feb 11, 2017
tsk tsk....Jan always protected our creations...if you published one, it was copyrighted. idk what these other sites do, but if you're even going to "borrow", then give credit where credit is due. for ex, "Yar" is entirely Jan's puzzle. not mine. I tweaked it in memorium, and made sure everyone knew it. and I believe Jan would have approved. in general though, taking from another is a serious no-no. it's caused drama in the past, and we don't want it in the present or future. if you can't create on your own, then don't bother creating. thank you
#6: Kurt Kowalczyk (bahabro) on Feb 11, 2017
at any rate, I'd be furious if I ever found out someone was publishing my puzzles at some other site. don't do it!
#7: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 11, 2017
There are so many sites where someone can go to "borrow" images. They are not puzzle sites, just sites that have pixel images by the dozens. There are even sites that feature what are called perler beads. These are small craft beads that are glued together in a pixel like manner to make various things such as coasters and jewelry. Even sophisticated pictures. Then there are numerous needlework patterns. All just sitting there waiting to be made into a puzzle.
#8: Aldege Cholette (aldege) on Feb 11, 2017
So if I see a picture in a magazine that I think would make a good puzzle,that's ok right? And making puzzles of needlework is ok too? I can't see any feeling of accomplishment from copying someone else's puzzle. Just like I can't seeing any point in cheating at card or board games. If you can't be good on your own where's that feeling of accomplishment. I'm sorry to hear this about Donna. I'm willing to give her a second chance though if I know her puzzles are of her own creation. :)
#9: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 11, 2017
Jan said he often used pictures to base his puzzle on. I often Google an image to get the general shape and proportions of something, but I never copy anything exact. I am no legal expert, but I did read that even though an image is public domain, a person could still get in trouble for copying something and claiming it as their own without giving credit to the person who created it. The number of hand created images available on the internet now is probably in the millions or close to it. So who's to know? But there are also a lot of repeats so often just googling the image you want (Marilyn Monroe in pixels) will bring up what you are looking for very quickly.
#10: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 11, 2017
I guess some individuals don't have a lot of confidence in creating their own puzzle, but that shouldn't stop them from being a member of our family. We have quite a few people who join in our discussions without making puzzles.
#11: Donna McFarland (donna0328) on Feb 11, 2017
Thank you Norma for pointing out all of the mistakes. You are right I do not have a whole lot of confidence in any thing I do. Just to give you a background of why I am this way: my mother was and still is verbally and mentally abusive; I have been married twice both to men who were abusive; My last two years of work negated everything that I had done for the twenty-five years before; I had to retire two years early to keep from having another stroke; I have a daughter who is 26 but has schizoaffective disorder and everyone but social security says she is disabled, so we are waiting (2 years now) on a court date that that could take place in the next six months. I have done this all on my own no one to turn to except me. I know I need counseling but frankly I can't afford it after paying for all my daughter's medical bills. This is only the tip of the ice berg.

I really think the way you approached this was very unkind and rude.

But I want to thank you for knocking me down again. I will not be using this site anymore, so you don't have to worry.
#12: Kristen Coolman (kristen) on Feb 12, 2017
*sigh* If you're still around, Donna, we did enjoy having you here. Just be honest in the future about giving credit. Something as simple as "I was inspired by X" or "I tweaked Y to make it more fun to solve."
#13: Kurt Kowalczyk (bahabro) on Feb 13, 2017
yeppers, that works...
#14: Susan Duncan (medic25733) on Feb 15, 2017
Norma - love your puzzle and want to thank you for bringing this to our attention. I don't agree with Donna's comment that you were unkind or rude - you were only making us aware of the fact that she was taking credit for others' work. She shouldn't be surprised that someone called her out on it. I feel bad for her troubles but that doesn't excuse plagiarism.
#15: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 15, 2017
Thank you Susan. Your comment means so much. I sat on this information for quite a while as it became obvious early on that something was not quite right. She would publish some puzzles that were rather simplistic, then the next puzzle would be very sophisticated. But when I saw people paying her nice compliments on work that was not hers I thought they should know and then they could draw their own conclusions.
#16: Teresa K (fasstar) on Feb 16, 2017
Yes, Norma, you were right to bring this to our attention. You did it respectfully. Jan would have appreciated this.

It was not a "mistake." it was just plain wrong. People can get defensive and hurt when they are confronted with their actions. This is not the first time, and it probably is not the last, but hopefully others will take note and not take credit for other's puzzle/pixel designs.

Big hugs to you and others who choose to do the right thing. :-)
#17: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 16, 2017
Thank you Teresa. And thanks for the hugs. :)
#18: Aldege Cholette (aldege) on Feb 16, 2017
I agree with Susan. She has no right to be upset with you Norma. She had to know she would get found out. And her hard luck story is no excuse. Most of us deal with crap all the time. It shouldn't turn you into a cheater. :)
#19: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Feb 16, 2017
Thank you Aldege. We have had plenty of people on this site who have been through some pretty rough times, but as you indicated, it didn't make them cheaters.
#20: Lollipop (lollipop) on Apr 19, 2017
I've just caught up with this puzzle and all these comments. I am one of those who feels too uncreative to attempt constructing a puzzle but I feel I contribute to the community by participating in the comments, and I have always felt welcome. There is no pressure here to be or pretend to be what you're not. Like Susan at #14, I too feel that Norma said what had to be said in a way that was neither unkind nor rude. And Teresa at #16, you're right too: theoretically the plagiarism might have been a "mistake" to begin with but it became a conscious theft when the puzzle "constructor" took active credit for "her" creations and thanked solvers for their compliments. And Aldège at #18, you are so right also. Some of you may remember my stories about my mother, who among other things blamed everyone else for everything she thought had gone wrong in her life, who lived for sympathy and attention, and who also lied instinctively like other people breathe. As I was reading #11 my experiences with my mother were made fresh when donna0328, after being caught out for her fabrications, blamed Norma instead of admitting and apologizing for her wrongdoing. I regret that I have to wonder whether any part of donna0328's sad tale is true. Anyway, she's gone, unless she's not gone, just lurking with another identity and feeling sorry for herself.

Norma, I love your original puzzles. This one is super, and has a great title. Thank you.
#21: Norma Dee (norm0908) on Apr 19, 2017
Thank you so much, Lollipop. Your comments are always more than welcome and I look forward to them. Comments are what give our puzzles life. And I wondered the same as you did. If she deceived us about her puzzles, did she deceive us about other things. Sadly she is gone and I hope she has better luck down the line.

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