#1: Cro-Magnon (Hermit) on Dec 17, 2009

Hello everybody.

I started this thread, basically, as a result of a discussion in a puzzle comment thread. But please note that I did NOT start this topic to further discuss the specific information in that discussion. Instead, this is more of a ‘general community’ topic.

From reading many comments and threads on this site, I initially formed the impression that this was a place that welcomed open discussion. There are *many* comment threads where information is provided. You never quite know what you might learn from reading the comments after solving a puzzle. I like to learn, so I found this appealing.

For example, early in the comments for a puzzle, a misconception about Darwin's deathbed confession was mentioned. The response was a very frank rebuttal of the false myth of Darwin's conversion. In addition, MANY other puzzles on this site also contain comments where information is provided or misconceptions are cleared up. This further led me to believe that the general community (or at least part of the community) on this site valued truth and reason.

But then, when I provided information and evidence about certain misconceptions, the result was, in essence, stubborn and unyielding dismissal. The discussion stopped.

I am baffled by this! And I am beginning to question my initial impressions.

I have some ideas about this matter, but I would like some open feedback. So…

Can someone explain this to me? Anybody?

You stated your opinion. I stated mine. Anynoe reading the discussion is welcome to form their own opinion. What more do you want?

I am not talking about opinion! I have no problem with a difference in opinion; none, zero, zip.

I distinctly stated that I am talking about clearing up misconceptions, and the reaction to that. A misconception is different from an opinion. Correct? An opinion can be true, it can be false, it can be neither, it can be anywhere in between. A misconception is a false idea, a mistaken notion, a misinterpretation, a fallacious belief, etc.

As an example, I referred to post #8 from puzzle #239 which stated a misconception. The frank rebuttal is post #9, where the statement in #8 was shown to be false. Or do you think #9 was merely an opinion?

What I want is open and honest feedback about the issue stated in #1 above. So, Jan, please don't try to quash this topic. Whatever personal beef you may or may not have with me is not what this is about. Although this topic may not be important to you, it is important to me.

I like to sit back and listen to these ongoing debates. Thanks.

Hi Cro I just finish re-reading all off topic 239 conversation and I think you can rest sure that this place is really open to discussion. As an already old member in here I can assure you that worst as happen in term off verbal war in some of the forum.

We are fortunate enought to have a great range off people enjoying this website and with that came a great range a knowledge, believe and opinion. Even if sometime little war escalade on a subject ( basically be aware of what you say in regard of both religion and politic, but then again its the case anywhere with those subject)we as a community usually end up being very open minded and polite to each other.

As you probably already saw some user are more verbal than other and will defend they view of a subject to dead but the vast majority will probably just leave they're opinion if they felt it coherent to do so.

Don't stop giving your opinion we are open to discussion even when sometime we pass as stubborn in the end its probably just a clumsy way of saying what we want to.

Adam and I had some great war like that in those forum but we or now good online friend and we found out that in the majority of case we think alike but express it in diffrent way. So you'll probably are going to have many more "interesting" discussion with Jan or any other member in the futur but I think I can say in the name of all members in here that yes discussion is always welcome at WEBPBN

Re#4: What?! You're going to sit back and just listen??

Ok, who stole Adam's account?! Is there a ransom demand yet? Furthermore, do we even want to pay it?! Just kidding!

But seriously, I would be interested to hear (read, I guess) your views, Adam. I trust that if you do decide to give me your feedback, it will be honest. ;-)

Re#5: Merci beaucoup. :-) (6 years of high school French long ago, and sadly that’s about half of all that I remember).

I certainly value what you, as an old member, have to say. That's not to say I don't value the viewpoints of new members, they can provide fresh insight into this matter too. I'm just saying that the 'regulars' that have been around here for a while can provide me with some valuable feedback based on their experience. So again, thank you.

I'm just trying to sort out various things in my head and trying to examine some impressions I have (which I’m not willing to share, not yet anyway, maybe not at all). So, I decided to ask for some community viewpoints on the matter.

On a lighter note, you might want to see a doctor about that "old member". J/K!! Sorry, can't help myself sometimes. :-)

don't worry about the old member its work very well and the lady still more than happy but I'll wont get into detail in here its a familly orented website. lol

LOL !!

Cro I posted on puzzle 239 since you didn't want to discuss it here. I had to gio there to try to understand what you are trying to debate here. When I understand that, I'll get to this. OK?

Actually, I'm not really trying to start a debate. I am just trying to sort some things out in my caveman head, so I asked for some community feedback.

But it looks like this has been successfully quashed, which I thought might happen. Not even the rarely-shy Adam will enter in. (Not an insult, Adam, in case that reads as such). Ah well.

LOL. I just don't feel the need to really say anything concerning this topic. Apparently neither do a lot of people. Sorry.

Apparently.
Or ... everyone is trapped in a shopping mall.
Or ... only one person thinks this is a place that welcomes open discussion. :-O
Or... well, I have other theories...

First of all let me say I totally agree with Sylvain in #5.
As to the value of a discussion, let's give it a try:
To me a Swastika is a symbol of Nazism. Someone can say it's a symbol of the Neolitic and I will still be offended by it. Our eyes are perfectly located in front of our brains so we can see with what we know. If you tattoo a swastika in your forehead to honor the neolitic period, I'll think you are just trying to be disrespectful of the Holocaust. Am I right? Of course I am, at least according to me.

Good one Jota. I'll going to follow what Jota said in #14 by adding something here. Yes the Swastika is a symbol far older than the nazi regime of the mid 1900 but in everybody mind this symbol is now associate with the 3rd reich regime and therefore loose all the past meaning and history that was attach to it.

People tend to reminber only the most important or the most in your face fact about something. So even if the Swastika was a symbol of freedom and balance in midieval Japan or a symbol of anything else in the Neolitic it is now a symbol of the Nazi and with it came all the attrocity that we know happen during WWII.

Its sad but its like that. In a totally diffrent exemple Zidane was an excellent soccer player and a model for all kid wanting to play pro soccer, but he will be reconize as the guy who looses his cool hand slam his head in some italian player chest in the world cup final.

but this is my opinion and I'm many wrong ( don't think I am but.. who know)

Oh goodie, symbol talk. One of my favourite topics. But uh-oh, it's the swastika. Well, look out, here I come... ;-)

First off, a couple clarifications:
1. Not only is the swastika a very old and ancient symbol, but it is still very much in use today. So to say that in everybody's mind it is now associated with Nazis is not really accurate, but it's also not entirely inaccurate. Neither is it really accurate to say it is now a Nazi symbol, and only a Nazi symbol. It is often, unfortunately, interpreted as such, but show a swastika to a Buddhist or Hindu and I highly doubt their first reaction will be "eek, Nazi!"
2. The swastika is quite widespread across Asia, and has been so for thousands of years. Thems the facts jack. :-)
(Not picking on you, Sylvain or Jota; I just used your posts as an example... me no want a pissing war) :-)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm
http://www.swastika-info.com/en/meaning.php
http://www.proswastika.org/index.php

Now, personally speaking, I view the swastika as a context symbol. I sometimes even refer to it as two different symbols. One is the 'true' original swastika with its meaning of good luck and its religious and cultural use. And second is the Nazi swastika, with its perverted meaning of hate and racism and its connection to the events of World War II.

So, it depends on the context. In the example given by Jota, with it tattooed on someone's forehead, it's probably safe to assume that that individual also has a shaved head and is wearing jackboots. In that case, yes, absolutely I would view it as the Nazi swastika.

However, if I go to an Asian market, and I see a statue of Buddha and on his chest is a swastika, then no, I do not think of it as a symbol of hatred. Definitely not! But then, I am aware of its original meaning; unfortunately, not everyone is. In fact, I've been in an Asian market with a friend and had to try to explain things to him before he marched up to the counter with a Buddha statue ready to rip the clerk a new one.

So, it depends on the situation. Well, to me anyway. But I fully understand how the symbol is a sensitive issue.

symbol being a sensitive issue talk to it to Dan Brown the man become millionaire because of it.....lol

Isn't that the truth. My wife loves his books. I've actually never read any of them myself, but I feel like I have from hearing her rave about them.

I read Angels and Demons and thought it was interesting from the historical point of view. Then I read The Da Vinci code which did not offend me but I didn't like it either, I know people that would not consider to even look at the book. I have not read anything else by him, even though I'm an avid reader.
A symbol is just a representation of something and what it represents to a person once again is to me defined by what a person know, feels and thinks. They cannot define my feelings but if I let them, they can influence my opinion.

I haven't read the books, but I've seen both of the movies. From an entertainment perspective, I enjoyed both movies - Da Vinci Code more then Angels and Demons. But as a Catholic, I viewed them simply as movies, I'm not altering my faith because of what I saw in the movies.

ditto Jen

How are things going Naneki?

She's fine, thanks for asking. :-)

And how are you Cro?

No she is not fine

Naneki are you married to Cro?

what is the world would make you say anything like that?

I just don't like anyone answering for me..

Hi naneki, you have been gone for a while. I don't know if you have been able to read a lot of cro's comments since you have been back yet. If not, let me explain. He is just a big goofball (meant nicely, not meanly), who likes to joke around. A lot. He says his peace, makes jokes, and moves on and retreats back to his cave. (Is that about right, Cro?)

Anyway, I don't think he meant any harm by it. He did put a smiley face after his comment. But I understand you not wanting people to answer for you, either. Cro is just being... well, he is just being Cro. LOL

Well Niebo got married and I just found out a couple of days ago, so I thought ...
In any case I think Cro was answering about his wife who he had mentioned likes to read Dan Brown books in a previous comment on this "confuzzled" forum.

Re #24: I am okay, Jen, thanks for asking. Not great, not bad. Just, um, okay. :-) And you?

Re #27: Aww, naneki, you no want big hairy caveman?! Me have big forehead, big big eyebrow, and carry big thunking club.
Me super sexxay!! :-P :-)

Re #28: Yep, Adam, I'd say that's about right. Very right. Okay, it's pretty much completely right. LOL

Re #29: Nope, Jota. I was just being a smartass. :-)

Re #30: Nothing, I thought I'd just re my own post.

:-D

I'm doing ok Cro. Started a new job this week and things are looking good.

Goto next topic

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